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PyUQP7KtPF QPCt0n U02?(gphoenix#Xv6X@CX@# Photius Coutsoukis 2l8vrvDefault Paragraph FoDefault Paragraph Font endnote textendnote text endnote referenceendnote reference footnote textfootnote text 2r4footnote referencefootnote reference toc 1toc 1` hp x (#` %`` %`` hp x (#toc 2toc 2` hp x (#` %`` %`` hp x (#toc 3toc 3` hp x (#` %` %` hp x (#2! 2 P n v toc 4toc 4 ` hp x (#` h%` h%` hp x (#toc 5toc 5 ` hp x (#` h%` h%` hp x (#toc 6toc 6 ` hp x (#` % ` % ` hp x (#toc 7toc 7  2) 4!R#p%'toc 8toc 8 ` hp x (#` % ` % ` hp x (#toc 9toc 9` hp x (#` %`` %`` hp x (#index 1index 1` hp x (#` %` %` hp x (#index 2index 2` hp x (#` %`` %`` hp x (#2)v+lr,toa headingtoa heading` hp x (#%%` hp x (#captioncaption _Equation Caption_Equation Caption    X ` hp x (#` hp x (#%#C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`إ#Xv6X@CX@#??USCAPTION ` hp x (#` hp x (#% IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON FOR THE COUNTY OF JACKSON In the Matter of the ) Marriage of: ) ) SUSAN SAMORA COUTSOUKIS,) ) Petitioner, ) ) and) Case No: 943846D3 ) PHOTIUS COUTSOUKIS, ) ) Respondent. ) ______________________________) February 20, 1998 Jackson County Courthouse Medford, OR 97501 Before: The Honorable Judge  Philip Arnold  TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS (Conference Call) For the Plaintiff: Ms. Christina Sanz Attorney at Law 900 West 8th Street Medford, OR 97501 For the Defendant: Pro se    WITNESS FOR THE PETITIONER  Witness  Examination  Page  SUSAN COUTSOUKISDIRECT10 CROSS28 REDIRECT51 RECROSS55 PETITIONER'S EXHIBITS  Exhibit and Description  Offered  Received  No. 1: Child support computations1066 No. 2: 1099 form1066 No. 3: Insurance letters1466 No. 4: Not identified 66 No. 5: Letter to school4766 No. 6: Letter dated Nov. 304566 ` hp x (#%` hp x (#% WITNESS FOR THE RESPONDENT  ` hp x (#%` hp x (#% PHOTIUS COUTSOUKISDIRECT36 RESPONDENT'S EXHIBITS  ExhibitOfferedReceived  No. 101116: Not identified65 No. 117: Financial agreement3765 No. 118: 1995 tax returns3065 No. 119120: Not identified65 No. 121125: Records of earnings3665 126130: Not identified65 No. 131132: Offer of Proof documents4565 3"#C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USCOLLOQUY 3"(The hearing commences at 10:34 a.m., and there is a general discussion off the record while the calls are being placed.) MR. COUTSOUKIS: Hi, I apologize for THE COURT: No problem. MR. COUTSOUKIS: If you'll hold a moment I'll get Susan on. Susan, are you there? MS. COUTSOUKIS: I am. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And is the court there? THE COURT: We're here and the tape recorder is on. We're on the record. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. THE COURT: The first thing I want to do is analyze specifically what issues we're going to deal with today. Ms. Sanz, what do you see as the issues we're dealing with? MS. SANZ: Your Honor, I would summarize it as follows: Number one, my client is requesting a recalculation of child support. I will be submitting exhibits requesting the court to not calculate it based on her potential income, but based on minimum wage, and given a rebuttable factor. Secondly, a small issue in terms of property. I just want it on the record that my client will be awarded the washer, dryer and sofa in Mr. Coutsoukis's possession. The court has already addressed the issue of the bed the last time we were in court. And she is requesting two other items; a computer, and that the parties exchange photographs, and some kind of means and how that will be exchanged. He can review hers and she can review his, so they can make copies. Secondly, any taxes owed by the parties to be paid by Mr. Coutsoukis. They are involved in an audit and it also involves Mrs. Coutsoukis' withdrawal of IRA funds. Thirdly, not wanting to reopen custody issues, however, for clarification we wondered if the court would address some addons to the guidelines and to the rulings that you made back when we were in court. And one of that is that they be able to communicate by Email, that a third party can drop off the child to Mr. Coutsoukis if my client is unavailable, and to specify the summer visitations of Mr. Coutsoukis, given the summer school calendar of the child. And my client will also be requesting telephone call visits with the child during those summer visits. I gave Mr. Coutsoukis a letter yesterday by fax outlining that these were the issues that we would be addressing with the court today. However, in my discussions with my client this morning she wanted to make one additional request, which quite frankly and candidly, I did not give notice to Mr. Coutsoukis on, and this is on spousal support or increase of child support. She's requesting that he pay her medical insurance for the next two years. And I know that Mr. Coutsoukis has three motions filed with the court, but those are the only issues we're addressing today. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, other than these issues and the three motions that you filed, do you understand that there are any other issues I'm dealing with? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well the ones that I filed have to do with THE COURT: I've already said I'm going to deal with those motions. I said, are there any others? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I never got verification from Jody Sanz about this third party exchange, about the summer visitation, about the phone calls. She did not address them with the fax. She did not file a motion, and I'm not prepared for this. THE COURT: Okay. MR. COUTSOUKIS: She had plenty of opportunity to do so. I called her this morning. She decided that THE COURT: Okay, I understand your position, sir. I just want to characterize these three motions that you have filed. One deals with supplying medical records and a position that Ms. Coutsoukis has interfered with that, is that correct, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: That is correct, medical and educational; especially education. And the reason for that is THE COURT: No, no, I just want to list them, please. The second one is I'm looking for the three motions. No, that's the same one. What are the other One, to hold Ms. Coutsoukis in contempt for violating the court order. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right, which was she would seek to modify the New York order. And the other one isthere's actually two. There's one for waiving court fees. THE COURT: You've asked that I not waive her fees. The fees had already been What had they been? Deferred or waived? MR. SANZ: Waived, your Honor. THE COURT: They've been waived. I'm not going to hear that. That motion's already been decided. I'm not going to change the fee waiver on that. So, Mr. Coutsoukis, does that just leave us with the two motions; one, the medical and educational records, and the other one, the contempt? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right. THE COURT: And just for the record, I'll state that Everybody understands it, but it ought to be stated on the record, that both you and Ms. Coutsoukis are in New York. You're appearing by telephone. Mr. Coutsoukis is representing himself. Ms. Coutsoukis is here with Ms. Sanz. I mean, Ms. Coutsoukis is represented by Ms. Sanz, who is here, and there may be sometime that we'll need to stop at some point. I'm going to try to do it so we don't interrupt the conference call, if you need to confer, Ms. Sanz, with your client. MR. COUTSOUKIS: It's very easy to reset up if you need to stop the call. THE COURT: Okay, if we do, we'll all be in agreement with what we're doing there. The way I want to proceed on this this morning is with the petitioner, that's Ms. Coutsoukis, presenting her case on the issues raised by Ms. Sanz. Ms. Sanz, is spousal support, which you've characterized as a new issueis that in the pleadings? Is there a spousal support request in the pleadings? MS. SANZ: I do not recall, your Honor. I think probably not. My recollection is that the petition did not request it. MR. COUTSOUKIS: My recollection is also that there was not that request. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, from your recollection is there any motion anywhere in the case regarding spousal support? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, there was one when we filed a petition for It's not the original divorce petition, but one for child support and spousal support, etcetera, when the mediation was repeatedly violated by the other side. That is in effect What happened through that mediation, which they didn't want to go to, and the psychological evaluation, which the court wanted THE COURT: What does that have to do with spousal support, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: And it did, it mentioned spousal support at the time. In other words, we were at her THE COURT: We, meaning you, Mr. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Correct, and that's also ridiculous. THE COURT: So you think you asked for spousal support from Ms. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I believe at one point, yes. It's possible but, you know, I cannot swear to it. It's been a long time ago. THE COURT: Well, I'm looking at the petition. Is there an amended petition or just the original? MS. SANZ: I think it's the original. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Ours was a motion filed by Beth Lorey (phonetic) at the time, before we left or just after we left. THE COURT: The petition does not request spousal support. I'm not going to hear a spousal support claim today. So in terms of clarifying the issues, I'm going to eliminate that request. MR. COUSOUKIS: May I add something else, your Honor? THE COURT: Yes. MR. COUSOUKIS: Today, Friday, is when I'm scheduled to pick up my daughter in (inaudible word). And because it is almost 2:00 o'clock here, and because of the number of issues and prospective time it will take, I assume it will go over that, unless you agree to reconvene later. And if you do not agree to reconvene later, could you at least assure me that that time will be made up by picking her up earlier the next time? THE COURT: We'll see where we are on that, Mr. Coutsoukis. MR. COUTSOUKIS: In other words, I'm asking to either THE COURT: I understand what you're asking, but we're not at the point of deciding whether we're finished or not, sir. Ms. Sanz, proceed. MS. SANZ: Your Honor, I think I need to address one more motion that Mr. Coutsoukis filed, that he didn't mention, but it is part of the court record, and that is a motion to correct the court order of, I think it's the last custody order, and I have that custody order dated as January 5thhe states it's December 6th, but I think he really means January 5thin terms of what he considers errors in my having drafted that. THE COURT: The court order after an additional hearingI've signed the court order. MS. SANZ: Yes. THE COURT: And I'm not MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, this is the additional hearing you mentioned, and I have a transcript of that and I supplied a transcript to the court as an exhibit. It clearly states what attorney Sanz is supposed to put in the order. There are three major items that are erroneous. These were either omitted all together, when they were ordered to be in, or misstated. In other words, yes, there was a hearing. Yes, the court ordered that Ms. Sanz prepare the order in accordance with certain things. And, no, she did not do it accordingly. And of course, I have a complaint about that, and I have exhibits to prove those. THE COURT: I'm not going to modify the court order, so I'm going to deny that motion. MS. SANZ: And just for Mr. Coutsoukis'sbefore I begin calling my witness, I just wanted to refer him to The issue outline that I prepared was the letter I sent him yesterday, February 19th, and they're stated on page 2. I'd like to call Susan Coutsoukis, please. )#C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USS. COUTSOUKIS D )THE COURT: Ms. Coutsoukis, I realize you can't see me, but I want you to raise your right hand anyway. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? MS. COUTSOUKIS: I do. THE COURT: Okay. SUSAN COUTSOUKIS Called as a witness by the Petitioner, having been duly sworn, testified on her oath as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. SANZ: Q. Ms. Coutsoukis, you're requesting the court to recalculate child support, is that correct? A. Yes, I am. MS. SANZ: And I would like to tender to the court Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 2. Exhibit 1 is the proposed child support calculations, and Exhibit 2 are your W2 and 1099 forms. THE COURT: Have you supplied these to Mr. Coutsoukis? MS. SANZ: Yes, I have, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: (Inaudible comment) BY MS. SANZ: Q. Are you currently working? A. No. Q. And when was the last time you were employed full time? A. December 31st, 1996. Q. And with whom? A. Harry & David, Bear Creek Corporation. Q. Have you been employed either full time or part time since you stopped working for Bear Creek Corporation? A. No, I have not. Q. And why is that? A. Because my focus is to take care of our child. Q. Do you plan to go back to work? A. Not until she's in school full time and her therapy schedules allow it. Q. At this point, when do you think that would become possible? A. Possibly two years. Q. She is how old right now? A. She's four and almost a half. Q. And you are currently supported by whom? A. I'm living at my sister's house. Q. Do you see that on a longterm So you're not paying any rent. A. No. Actually, we should be looking for a place right now, because we've been there almost a year and it's very difficult. Q. When you say we, you're talking about your daughter, Teddy, and yourself. A. Right. Q. And when you say right now, will you anticipate having to be in your own place, your own apartment, your own home, in one month, two months, three months? Be more specific. A. . . . (inaudible) two months, three months at the latest. Q. Just update us from the last time we were in court on the custody issue. What is Teddy's medical situation right now? A. Teddy has had a very difficult winter. She's had a couple of hospitalizations with some seizures. She hasn't been exposed to a full day, a half day at school, and being exposed to all these children she's contracted a lot of germs and that lowers her thresshold of seizure. She had a very good paziatry (phonetic) report in January where the doctor felt that she'd increased her abilities about almost 80 percent, and in some things she's sliding backwards and so we really have to monitor her very, very carefully. Q. She is only in school half day? A. Yeah, she goes from 9:00 to 12:00. Q. Monday through Friday? A. Right. Q. And she has therapy in the afternoons? A. She has therapy two times a week at a rehabilitation center that's about I guess 20 to 25 miles away from our home. Q. In terms of support just for yourself, did you look into any welfare benefits or other government benefits that you would be eligible for? A. Well, there's a little IRA money and as long as that IRA money is there, you're not eligible. Q. Did you ever consider doing part time work while Teddy is in school, right now? A. I thought about it, but it's very difficult because if she's sick, you know, how do you explain that to somebody? And also, there's a lot of research that needs to be done on her condition and anything that we can learn That's why I'm asking for a computer on the internet. It's a full time job taking care of her. She's on a special diet. Meals need to be prepared. And I feel my focus is better spent doing those things, getting her to her best ability. Q. And staying at home with your child, that was something Mr. Coutsoukis always wanted you to do? A. Always wanted to have that happen, that a parent was always with her. Q. Now, Exhibit 2 is your 1099 form from Employment, Department of Oregon? A. That was unemployment. Q. That was a summary of what you received in 1997, is that correct? A. Right. Q. And your W2 is the one payment you received for the year 1997 from Harry & David? A. Right. MS. SANZ: Your Honor, if I can make a quick description Oh, I'm sorry, let me go back to Ms. Coutsoukis. I also wanted to tender to the court Exhibit 3. Exhibit 3 is the United Health Care and Blue Cross/Blue Shield letters. Q. Ms. Coutsoukis, can you explain to the court what these mean, what they are? A. They're basically the expenditures that the insurance companies had as it related to our health issues, and then whatever the outofpocket monies were that I had to pay. Q. And at this point you have not billed Mr. Coutsoukis for any outofpocket expenses. A. Correct. Q. You're still paying on those yourself. A. Yeah. Q. And so you've averaged, the two years together of outofpocket expenses, approximately $2,200 a year average? A. Right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm sorry, where does it show that? MS. SANZ: If I can explain, your Honor. That's the patienton page 1 of Exhibit 3, the United Health Care, it says patient responsibility, $2,948. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Is that a number from the insurance company or is that a number that's on THE COURT: It's on page 1 of Exhibit 3, Mr. Coutsoukis. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, I just got a fax from her. It doesn't Okay, okay, fine. MS. SANZ: And the next one is from Regents Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Oregon; outofpocket, there's bold letters, 1,450. If you add both United Health Care's patient responsibility figure and the Blue Cross/Blue Shield outofpocket cost figure, that comes to an average of 2,200 for the year. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Is that the one with the letterhead from Regents? MS. SANZ: Yes. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, I'm sorry, because my exhibits are not marked so I have to locate them. Go ahead. MS. SANZ: Yeah, I sent you an exhibit list also. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I know, but none are marked. Go ahead. BY MS. SANZ: Q. So 2,200 a year, divided by 12 months, is $183 a month, is that correct, Mrs. Coutsoukis? A. Correct. Q. And so you would prefer having that included in the child support calculation rather than have to bill Mr. Coutsoukis every month or every time you receive a bill from the health care provider, is that correct? A. Yes. MS. SANZ: And, your Honor, that's why we're proposing page 1 of Exhibit 1 to be the child support calculation. Page 2 does not include that health care cost. Page 2 would just be Mrs. Coutsoukis having to bill Mr. Coutsoukis for every uncovered medical bill. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Page 1 and page 2? THE COURT: Exhibit 1 is a support computationtwo different computations, Mr. Coutsoukis. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right. Page 1 of (undecipherable word). MS. SANZ: Right. THE COURT: And page 2 is the 569. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. BY MS. SANZ: Q. Mrs. Coutsoukis, you're also requesting that Mr. Coutsoukis deposit the child support amount directly into your bank account rather than to the Department of Human Resources? A. Yes, because Mr. Coutsoukis's checks are coming from California and the float is five days, and it's not helpful. Q. And if it comes through the DHR it would take another delay? A. God only knows how long. Q. On the property issues THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis Let me interrupt here a second. She wants a washer and dryer that you have. Do you object to that? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I never claimed that she She #C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USCOLLOQUY brought THE COURT: You agree to it then, sir, is that correct? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yeah, but I also want to note, if I may, that she asked me to store them for her when we came to New York, and I agreed to that, and at this end put that bed in the court order, made it seem as if I lay claim to Susan's stuff, which I very generously just gave to her. This is a matter of appearances here. The reason she put it in is to make an appearance, and today she's making another appearance, as if I have some sort of a claim to things that Susan has. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, please just answer the questions. Ms. Coutsoukis wants a computer. Do you object to that? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I apologize, your Honor. I sent a letter to be sent THE COURT: That's a yes or no question, Mr. Coutsoukis. MR. COUSOUKIS: I will give her a computer. I sent a letter to Ms. Sanz weeks ago. THE COURT: And, Ms. Sanz, do you have a letter that will tell us the computer we're talking about? MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, not about a computer. I told her that the washer, dryer, the sofa, the bed, we need to have removed by March 17th because I'm moving to a smaller apartment. I have no room for it. THE COURT: Okay, it will be moved by March 17. Would you describe, Mr. Coutsoukis, the computer which you're agreeing that she can have? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, it is a Bell (phonetic) computer. It is a 486. It's a very reliable computer. Its modem axis is problematic. It would need to be fixed, and I don't know that I have the time to fix that part, or she can get herself a modem for less than a hundred dollars. THE COURT: Do you have an available modem? MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, sir, I don't have an available modem. THE COURT: Do you have any other computer that the modem is working, that you can supply her? MR. COUTSOUKIS: The only computers I have are my company computers, which are used for me to earn money to make a living on. THE COURT: Ms. Sanz, is that the computer you're talking about? MS. SANZ: I think I should defer to Mrs. Coutsoukis on that. THE COURT: Ms. Coutsoukis, is that the computer you're talking about? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, it's fine, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay, the 486 Bell computer then, we're in agreement on that. The proposal on the photographs is What's your proposal, Ms. Sanz? MS. SANZ: Well, maybe in the next visitnot this one scheduled for today, but the next scheduled one, both parties exchange what they have. It's our understanding that Mr. Coutsoukis has a box of some earlier pictures. Exchange those MR. COUTSOUKIS: Excuse me, excuse me. Ms. Sanz is testifying here that I have a box THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, you know, you're going to cooperate with this procedure or we're going to go without you. Now, can you exchange all the photographs that you have with Ms. Coutsoukis on the next visit after today's, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Susan kept all the pictures in her house. THE COURT: So the answer is no, you can't do that? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I have newer pictures and I have some old pictures. I'll be happy to show them to her. THE COURT: Can you exchange them so that she can get copies made? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I see no reason why not. THE COURT: Good, then we don't have to talk about any further testimony about that. The washer and dryer, the computer, and the exchange of the photographs that were made prior to the separation I guess that's the date we're talking about, isn't it? You've each made your own photographs since separation? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I stored my photos and my tax records and other things in Susan's house in Medford when I didn't have room for them THE COURT: Okay, so what we're going to do is you'll exchange those photographs that were made prior to separation, and then you'll be able to make copies of those and return them as soon as the copies are made. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And I request to make copies of photos after the separation also. MS. COUTSOUKIS: I have no problem with that, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay, we'll do that too. What date do you want to put, Mr. Coutsoukis? Today? All pictures made before today? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Any time. MS. COUTSOUKIS: That's fine, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay, all pictures you have. You'll exchange those, you'll make what copies you want, and then you'll return them as soon as the copies are made. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Great. THE COURT: But in no event will that take more than a month. I want to put some outside deadline on that to be sure that we don't have some problem later on. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Also, if I may, with this moving I understand Mr. Coutsoukis is moving. Now, the man that I have contracted to pick up these things can only work on a weekend, and I need that help. He can't work at night. THE COURT: Any problem with that, Mr. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: As long as it's not a weekend when Teddy's here. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Fine. THE COURT: All right, you'll pick those up on a weekend when Teddy's not there. MS. COUTSOUKIS: But he also said at night, and my storage facility isn't open at night. So that's fine, thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: While we're working these things out, do you have any problem with the request, Mr. Coutsoukis, that as soon as Ms. Coutsoukis' computer is operating that you communicate by Email? MR. COUTSOUKIS: No. She requested Email communications before and as soon as I sent Email she went to the court in New York and said no Email. THE COURT: Okay, well, so you agree with Email communications? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I always agree with any form of communication. THE COURT: All right, do you have any problem with the third party drop off if she's unavailable? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, I do. THE COURT: And you surely don't have any problem with the same communications that you have with Teddy now by phone; she would have the same communications during the summer visit when Teddy's with you. You'd agree with that, wouldn't you? MR. COUTSOUKIS: No problem. THE COURT: Okay, so the only thing we need to talk about is the third party drop off and the back taxes. Those are the two issues I show remaining then. MS. SANZ: That's correct. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, do you agree you should pay the back taxes? MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, I do not because those were expenses THE COURT: Okay, okay, we'll cover the back taxes and the third party drop off, and that will cover your issues, Ms. Sanz, am I correct? MS. SANZ: Okay, and in my letter to Mr. Coutsoukis yesterday, I also stated the dates of his summer visitation. THE COURT: Okay. MS. SANZ: And it conforms with the court order. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm sorry, what do you mean? You specified dates for when I can see Teddy in the summer? MS. SANZ: Based on the court order, you were to have visits with Teddy a total of four weeks, divided two weeks each, when she was not in school, and these happen to be exactly the four weeks that she is not in school for summer school. MR. COUTSOUKIS: But I do have a problem with that. THE COURT: Okay, we'll get to that. I'll make a note on that and we'll get to that. All right, so now we have three issues left. #C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USS. COUTSOUKIS D   BY MS. SANZ: Q. Okay, Mrs. Coutsoukis, on the tax issue, give us some background. There was a withdrawal from your IRA account during the time that you were separated from Mr. Coutsoukis, is that correct? MR. COUTSOUKIS: It's not a tax issue. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis MR. COUTSOUKIS: Actually, it's not a tax issue. THE COURT: Mr. Cousoukis, you're getting yourself awfully close to just being excluded from the proceeding here. Don't interrupt again. BY MS. SANZ: Q. Mrs. Coutsoukis, did you remember my question? A. Yes. Q. Go ahead, quickly. A. I loaned Mr. Coutsoukis's company $48,000, which was my IRA money. Q. Now, you are not requesting repayment of that, correct, at this time? A. Well, I would love to request repayment of it, but my understanding is Q. Okay, but you're not doing it right now. A. (A phone is heard ringing.) Is that some other phone? Q. Now, you want to make sure You're being audited for your '90/'95 taxes. A. That's the phone. MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, that's my phone. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, I'm sorry. BY MS. SANZ: Q. You're being audited for your A. That phone ringing caught my attention. Q. That's okay. A. I'd like to continue on that IRA money. But due to bankruptcy filings, my understanding is that that money will not be returned because of bankruptcy filings, which is of course very, very upsetting and horrifying. Q. Now, this money was removed from your account in 1995. A. Correct. Q. And this happens to be the exact tax year that the IRA is auditing. A. Yes. Q. And the money went to Mr. Coutsoukis's business. A. Yes. Q. And you're requesting that he be responsible for all taxes owed on all joint filings that you have done, correct? A. Yes, because I basically had a W2 form. He has his business, which he's selfemployed, and my understanding from the discussion that I had with the IRS agent was the reason that the tax return was being audited was because of what's called a Schedule C, which had to do with his expenses on his business. And I'm very concerned that if there was an error or a miscalculation that I'm going to be responsible, you know, even down the line, because we've filed jointly until this year, and I don't feel that I should be responsible for that. Q. And your request is not only that he be responsible for taxes that may be owed in 1995 as a result of the audit, but any other joint tax filings that you have had with him. A. That's right. Q. Because during every joint filing you have always been on salary with a company. A. Yes. Q. And he has been selfemployed, well, since the time that he started his business. A. Yes. Q. Now, the next issue is whether a third party can drop off Teddy if you are not available. Why are you requesting that? A. Well, I mean, anything . . . (undiscernible), you know, to be ill or something. I want the court to rule on this because if, you know, something happens and I can't be there then I don't want there to be a scene. THE COURT: Who are the third parties that you have in mind, Ms. Coutsoukis? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Only a sister or another person that Teddy considers THE COURT: Is this a specific person or MS. COUTSOUKIS: I think there would only be certain people that I would want Teddy to be with and that's my sister or my best friend who she considers an aunt. THE COURT: Give me her name. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Roberta. THE COURT: Roberta? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Yeah, Gerardi. BY MS. SANZ: Q. And the exchanges are still being made at a police department, correct? A. (Inaudible) Q. I'm sorry A. I don't want, you know, if there would be a situation where if, God forbid, something happens and I can't make the exchange, that someone goes in my stead, that Mr. Coutsoukis is going to be upset and that Teddy's going to be put in an uncomfortable situation. And whoever's picking upit could either be either two of my sisters, Barbara Tucker or Joan McFrare (phonetic) or Roberta Gerardi, whom Teddy considers her aunt and is lovingly playing with downstairs right now. Q. Now, your response didn't end up on the record, and I just wanted The exchanges are still being made in the police department, correct? A. I'm sorry, yes, excuse me, they are. Q. The other issue is summer school for Teddy and Mr. Coutsoukis's summer visitation. A. Right. Teddy has beenbecause of her special needs she is going to be included in a summer school program at the same school that she goes to now where she will be receiving her speech therapy, her physical therapy and her occupational therapy as well as swimming four times a week. And the only time that there's a break between regular school and the beginning of summer school, the end of summer school and the beginning of her kindergarten time now are those four weeks that you have documented there, Ms. Sanz. THE COURT: And what are those weeks? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Sorry, but that's how BY MS. SANZ: Q. What are those weeks? A. I don't have it in front of me. Q. The week of June 22 and A. I can look at a calendar. Q. I can tell you. June 22 and June 29, both those weeks, and then August 17th and August 24th, both those weeks. A. Right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Would you repeat that, please? MS. SANZ: The week of June 22nd, the week of June 29, the week of August 17, and the week of August 24. We're going to rest, your Honor. #C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USS. COUTSOUKIS X  THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Coutsoukis, I'd like for you to address these issues in the way that we have identified them. MR. COUTSOUKIS: May I ask Susan some questions, please? THE COURT: All right. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Susan, you have mentioned that because of germs is the reason why Teddy has been having seizures in New York. Was she not exposed to germs in Medford when I was taking care of her? A. Not anywhere near, no, not anywhere near what she's exposed to at school. Q. Do you recall Teddy being taken by me and/or my designated babysitter across the street from my office to the health club day care center? THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, move to your next question, please. This is not relevant to anything. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Okay, you have mentioned that the reason you're not working is because it gives you the opportunity to do more research on Teddy's condition? A. Not only that, but more importantly, to take care of her. Q. Right. Now, is it not true that I did extensive research on Teddy's condition and took care of her, and yet you demanded that we put her in the day care so that I can go to work? A. I don't know what MS. SANZ: I'll object, your Honor, for relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. You don't have to answer that, ma'am. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Okay, regarding medical expenses in 1997, would you say that I, rather than you, paid for her expenses in terms of Dr. Scotelli's (phonetic) fees, in terms of all the medicine that came from Greece, including up to the rest of the year, the one that she takes now? And in terms of taking her to see Dr. Laurie Christianson (phonetic), the famous optholmologist in Portland A. I do agree that you took her. All Greek conversations, you know, I do agree with that. In terms of the medicine, I've been supplying the majority of her Greek medicine since June, maybe. Q. May I ask where you get it? A. Certainly. I get it from Europe. Q. And you're saying that when I was getting it from her pinagorologist (phonetic) via prescription there, and via my sister sending it to us, it was not good enough, correct? A. No, it wasn't that it wasn't good enough. I just had the availability of it and not having to go through you. Q. Did you not send a fax via your lawyer in New York stating that you would want to find a Mexican doctor so you can get your medicine from Mexico so you don't have to get it from her dad? A. I don't remember that MS. SANZ: I object. THE COURT: Ms. Coutsoukis, you don't have to answer that. I'm going to sustain the objection. MS. COUTSOUKIS: I'm sorry, I didn't hear Ms. Sanz. THE COURT: There's no need to answer that question. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Is it not true that Teddy, since our separation, has been in much worse shape than she has ever been in that . . . (undiscernible) her breath regularly, on a regular basis, every week for the three years I took care of her, and that has not been the case in New York? MS. SANZ: Objection, relevance. THE COURT: Don't answer that. The objection's sustained. What other questions do you have, Mr. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Regarding the taxes, may I show an exhibit? THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: The 1995 tax returns. THE COURT: Where do I have that exhibit, Mr. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Exhibit No. 18. THE COURT: The one that you have sent, No. 18? MR. COUTSOUKIS: There should be two copies, one for THE COURT: Yes, I have it. Go ahead. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, what we are saying, Susan, since you're not there, is we are looking at the 1040 THE COURT: Does she have a copy of this, Mr. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. MS. COUTSOUKIS: You know, I don't MR. COUTSOUKIS: Not right now, but THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, excuse me, sir. Ms. Coutsoukis, do you have a copy of a document marked Exhibit 18? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Do I? THE COURT: Yes. MS. COUTSOUKIS: No, I don't. THE COURT: You didn't send her a copy of these exhibits, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Didn't occur to me, I apologize. THE COURT: No, it's not a criticism. It's just you're not going to be able to ask her about a piece of paper that she doesn't have. You tell me about it when you testify. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I apologize. THE COURT: No problem. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Well, to your knowledge, Susan, when we filed in 1995, wasn't it true that you had all the income and I had all the losses and that consequently the tax return, the money you got back from the IRSall the money we got back from the government was because all our tax earnings, a great portion of it were to offset the losses on my part, and that was the reason for the A. Sounds reasonable. Q. Yeah. Wasn't the reason why you and I filed a joint return in 1995 so that you can take advantagewe can take advantage of my losses in order for you and me to get money back from the IRS? A. Sounds accurately put. Q. And wasn't that true also in 1996? A. Yes. Q. Now, if it turns out that we underpaid our taxes, which we know now the reason for the audit By the way, if I may THE COURT: No, you just Are there any other questions you have? Then it will be your turn to testify. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. So if there was any underpayment of taxes, Susan, wouldn't those taxes be owed by you? A. But it's not an underpayment THE COURT: Ms. Coutsoukis, I don't want you two to argue. That's just an argument, Mr. Coutsoukis. You're not going to be able to do that. Don't answer that, ma'am. Any other question you have, sir? Mr. Coutsoukis, the purpose of these questions ought to be to teach me something, and if the way you're going to teach me is to testify yourself, then you ought to get to it. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Oh, I will. THE COURT: If you're just going to argue with her, I'm not going to let you do it, sir. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I apologize. I will testify in a minute. I'm almost done. Q. Susan, you stated that you want to take care of Teddy and therefore you are not actively looking for work. Would you tell us why it is that I had to work at home in Oregon? A. Why you worked at home in Oregon? MS. SANZ: Objection to relevance. THE COURT: Yeah, that's sustained. That's not relevant. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Okay, in 1997, did you not file a motion with the court with a sworn affidavit, in the midst of a psychological evaluation, stating that you had to go to New York because the job opportunities for you were better there? A. Yes, that's true, because the job I didn't think that I could stay home. I thought I had to earn an income. Q. Okay, in nineteen ninety A. This evolved, if I may, from a decision to leave Oregon, to come back where my family is, get a job, and then my sister allowed us to stay with her so then I realized I could take care of Teddy. Q. Now, in 1994 you and I had seen Jeanine O'Brien (phonetic) for counseling, and during those sessions were you not made aware by me that we could both stay home until Teddy went home (sic) on the basis of my enormous credit line? MS. SANZ: Objection as to relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Did you not have the opportunity to do the same thing in Oregon; stay home and not seek a career? THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, that's not relevant. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Withdrawn. THE COURT: If you ask one more question now that is so far off base, we're going to stop your questioning. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. THE COURT: Now, get to something relevant. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. Q. You mentioned your sister Barbara as somebody who was taking care of you and Teddy and somebody who would be the third party delivering Teddy to me. Is sister Barbara the same person who threw you and Teddy out in 1995 and I picked you up with a taxi out of her house, on the ground, and took you to my hotel in New York, in Yonkers? A. My sister never threw me out. Q. You're saying that did not happen? A. No, I'm not saying it didn't happen. She didn't throw me out. I left. Q. Okay, regarding the checks coming from California, would you tell us what was the account name on the check that came from California? A. What do you mean? MS. SANZ: Objection, well BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Well, what name? Was it Photius, was it I.T. Information Technology (phonetic)? A. I don't remember. Q. Okay. A. I don't remember. It was either one of those two. I don't remember which one it was. Q. But you have received both kinds, in other words. A. I don't know. I don't remember what the name was. I know it was from you. It was either you or the company name. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, no more questions. THE COURT: All right, now you may testify. Is there any information you have that will be helpful to me about the child support computation? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, I produced some exhibits that may be helpful, I hope. THE COURT: About child support? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: All right, which one do you want me to look at? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm looking, I'm looking, just one moment, please. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, I'm going to remark your exhibits all with addingthey should begin with 100, so they will begin 101 through whatever the last numbered exhibit isthrough 130, and I'll have the clerk do that. So when you refer to them, we'll be dealing with them in that way. #C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USP. COUTSOUKIS D  MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. I believe I sent some exhibits that show my earnings; quarterly and annual basis. And those would be No. 21 through 25, I guess 121 through 125. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: The first one, 21 is a summary that totals from the other four, for each quarter. And they show that in 1997 my total income was $30,898.92. Assuming it will stay the same, which is not certain, of course, the monthly average should be $2,534.91. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And, of course, the other four exhibits. Now THE COURT: They just substantiate these figures in 121, is that right, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Correct. Now, I did not supply living expensestype. Don't I need to be sworn in to testify? THE COURT: Good idea. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I do. THE COURT: All right, I accept all your testimony as having been under oath. MR. COUTSOUKIS: May I proceed now with my testimony, please? Should I continue? THE COURT: Sure. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, regarding the school records, I requested last THE COURT: Let me ask you this, sir. I want to hear what you have to say. Are you finished with anything you have to say about child support? MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, I had it in a certain order here. THE COURT: Well, I want to hear what you have to say. What else do you have to tell me about child support? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, first of all, I submitted an exhibit, which is No. 117. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: The financial agreement that was signed by me and Susan, and it was negotiated with attorney Sanz and my then attorney, Jerry Jacobson. And it is my position that this constitutes, conclusively determines the disposition of our finances in this case. THE COURT: Okay. MR. COUTSOUKIS: There has also been a financial history that I would like to recount, because it shows how we came from being a very welltodo couple and child to being destitute, and to show that the reason for that is strictly the actions of the petitioner, who is now asking for money that I don't even have. I was forced to sell real properties for living expenses and the other two were abandoned or foreclosed, but those are noted in the financial agreement. They no longer exist. Upon arrival in New York with Teddy, Susan requested that I temporarily store her things and information before . . . (undescipherible) the bills, so she had those. Now, regarding the issue claimed that I owe her $48,000 THE COURT: No, there's no such claim. MR. COUTSOUKIS: There's no such claim? THE COURT: No, I don't need to hear about that. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, there was an awful lot of discussion about it. THE COURT: Move to the next topic, please. Anything else you want to tell me about child support? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, I think that if the court agrees Well, first of all, I want to mention that the calculation that was provided for the court order that was signed was spurious for the following reasons. My then attorney Ben Lorey, at my request, called petitioner's attorney Sanz MS. SANZ: I'm going to object, your Honor. I think he's going to be addressing changes to the last custody order concerning child support figures. THE COURT: What do you have to tell me, Mr. Coutsoukis, about computing child support today? Do you have anything to help me on that? MR. COUTSOUKIS: What I wanted to say is there is a history of deliberate THE COURT: You may not say that, sir. You know, there are orders here in place in which I've already denied several things of yours because of these antagonistic comments of yours. I'm not going to accept them in this hearing either. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, school records? THE COURT: No, sir, the next thing I want to hear is about back taxes. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Regarding the child support, if the court recalculates, should the court recalculate on the basis of my income as well? THE COURT: That's just argument, sir. You've presented to me that instead of 3,500 I should use the figure twentyfive hundred and something as shown on the exhibit. I understand that. No need to repeat yourself. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, can I address the record then? THE COURT: I want you to address Is there any evidence you want me to hear about the back taxes? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, I supplied two exhibits THE COURT: Tell me what they are. MR. COUTSOUKIS: They are the tax returns for 1995 and 1996. Those exhibits show the only taxes owed were taxes owed on Susan's income. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: The only tax refunds were refunded because of my losses. THE COURT: And your point is, of course MR. COUTSOUKIS: My point is THE COURT: Your point is that she benefited back then and she ought to share in these back taxes now. MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, I'm saying that Susan, if those taxes If by chance, which we don't know, they file that there's some additional taxes owed in '95, it would have been taxes owed on Susan's income alone, because I had zero earnings. And if it's Susan's taxes alone, why should I be the one paying them? THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, about addressing the school records THE COURT: Let's see, you're objecting to the third parties that she wants to drop off Teddy. What's your objection to them? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, I don't object if we know who it is. It would be nice if Susanif now she's supposedly rescinding her demand that we do not speak on the phone, that she does call on the phone and let me know in advance if some third party will be bringing Teddy. THE COURT: And what is the purpose of that, sir? How does that help you? You don't object to either of these three people? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, I do have some objection to Barbara. THE COURT: All right, what's the objection to Barbara? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Because she threw When I went to pick up Teddy in New York, in Yonkers, Susan was sitting on the ground, Teddy was lying on the ground sleeping, and Barbara was throwing things out of the second store windowTeddy's things and Susan's things. And I picked them up in the taxi and took them to my hotel. We had come to Yonkersto New York, Yonkerssaw that Susan was doing what she was doing, I can deal with my pride, okay? And this is the same person we're talking about, with a very tumultuous relationship with her husband that it (undecipherable word). THE COURT: So you think she's going to harm Teddy in some way? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. Well, I don't know if I have a choice. MS. COUTSOUKIS: We live with her. THE COURT: Ms. Coutsoukis, now, you wait until it's your turn again. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Oh, excuse me. THE COURT: Just as I required him to do that, you'll be required to do the same thing. MS. COUTSOUKIS: I apologize. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And she's right, they do live together. If they can live together, obviously, she can give her a ride. So like I said, as long as the record shows that I don't necessarily think that setup is particularly savory THE COURT: You're just complaining about where she lives, not about Barbara being the person to drop off Teddy, is that right? MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's absolutely correct. THE COURT: Okay, gotcha. Now, let me see, the summer visit. What about those weeks? Any problem with those weeks? MR. COUTSOUKIS: For the summer visit is that, as the record will show, and I do have exhibits, if the court allows it THE COURT: Tell me what the problem with those four weeks is. MR. COUTSOUKIS: The problem is that the more time Teddy spends at the day care center and the less time she spends with me, the worse she gets. There are recent records that I received that show that Teddy not only has been enormously absent at this school, that she has regressed every time and she cannot do the things that she could do two years before it started with her. THE COURT: So you do not have any objection to the weeks of June 22, June 29, August 17th and August 24th. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I absolutely do. I think I should be allowed, as previously ordered, to give them the dates by May 15th, and if that interferes with day care, I am better than day care for Teddy. That's my objection. THE COURT: All right, I've got it. Now, I think we've covered all of the issues that are contested except your issues about medical records that you want to talk about. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And corrections to the court orders. In other words THE COURT: I'm not going to change the court order, so we don't need to talk about that. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I won't be allowed to state what was THE COURT: You've already done that in your motion, and that sets forth your position, if you want to appeal that. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, can I submit my affidavit then as proof, that has the details on it? THE COURT: Your affidavit will be attached as part of your motion. We'll consider your affidavit. Is this the one you submitted today? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. THE COURT: The affidavit that's just entitled affidavit MR. COUTSOUKIS: It's entitled Petitioner's Affidavit on top. THE COURT: And then it was crossed out and it says Respondent's, is that correct? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, it is respondent's, indeed, and I apologize. THE COURT: No problem. And where it says, Corrections to court order MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right. THE COURT: Yes. What we'll do is submit that portion of this affidavit as what's called an Offer of Proof. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Can we also submit as an Offer of Proof, the appendix, which is starting with paragraph 35? THE COURT: I'll submit this whole affidavit as an Offer of Proof. MS. SANZ: On that point, your Honor, can I submit Exhibit 6? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Am I still testifying here? THE COURT: Well, just a moment, sir. You are, but I'm interrupting just a second. MR. SANZ: This is on the motion to change that court order. I have Exhibit 6. It's my letter to Mr. Coutsoukis, dated November 30th. Basically the 2nd paragraph is relevant, notifying him of the change of the child support. THE COURT: So this will be a response to the Offer of Proof, okay. MS. SANZ: My response, that's correct. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, then I have a response to her response to the Offer of Proof, which was my letter to the judge, to this court, which was faxed last night when I received her letter. It's entitled It's a fax, because THE COURT: Last minute communication, is that right? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I beg your pardon? THE COURT: That's the title of the letter is last minute communication? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I believe so. I cannot even find it here. THE COURT: Dated yesterday and addressed to me, carbon copy to Ms. Sanz. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, your Honor, that's exactly the one. I found it. THE COURT: I will accept that also in the Offer of Proof. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Thank you. THE COURT: Ms. Sanz, hand me your letter that you want designated an Offer of Proof. MS. SANZ: Oh, I've given it to the clerk, your Honor. It's Exhibit THE COURT: Okay, then the record will reflect them as an Offer of Proof. MS. SANZ: Exhibit 6. THE COURT: We'll designate your two items that I've listed as Offer of Proof as Exhibit I believe your last exhibit was 30, is that correct, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's right. THE COURT: They'll be Exhibits 131 and 132. And what an Offer of Proof means is you want to talk about certain things and I have ruled them inadmissible, but they're a part of the record now. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. THE COURT: So we want to go to the next issue of medical and educational records. What is your issue there, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, I requested records from Teddy's school in accordance with the provisions of the court order. I was told by Frank O'Cara (phonetic), who is the director of that day care center, the school, that after speaking with Susan She actually called me first, and then she spoke with Susan, then we spoke again. that she was instructed by Susan not to provide me with the daily book that, at the time, which was just a few days ago, was the only existing record of Teddy's activities since she began attending this school. THE COURT: The daily book? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I was also told that Susan took this book home every day and that it would be up to her, to Susan, to send me a copy. Now, Teddy's condition is primarily diagnosed and monitored by observed behavior. That applies to (undecipherible word) skills, motor skills, emotional expressions. Her ability to walk, her seizures, her ability to understand and speak, her mood changes, are all observable behaviors. THE COURT: This is a record, sir Let me interrupt you. Ms. Sanz, do you agree with this statement that there's something called a daily book that Ms. Coutsoukis takes home with her? MS. SANZ: I agree, your Honor. I want to tender to the court Exhibit 5. MR. COUTSOUKIS: What is that? MS. SANZ: That's the letter that my client wrote the school, instructing them to provide that information to Mr. Coutsoukis THE COURT: Well, this daily book also shows performance in school, is that correct? MR. COUTSOUKIS: It shows her observable behaviors. THE COURT: Okay, observable behavior in school. MR. COUTSOUKIS: That is correct. Teddy's condition is MR. SANZ: From what my client described, it will say, needs more milk. You know, it's a note back and forth between teacher and parent; she needs more diapers or certain clothes or milk. THE COURT: Well, do you agree that he's entitled to that? MS. SANZ: We have no objection to that, but that's a school record which I believe the school should be providing to Mr. Coutsoukis per your last court order. THE COURT: But the school told you, sir, that she had to provide it, is that correct? MR. COUTSOUKIS: The school told me, number one, that she told them not to provide it to me, and number two THE COURT: So do you have a copy of Exhibit 5, sir? That is, the letter from Ms. Samora to the school? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I have a problem with that as well, and I will address it. THE COURT: I mean, it's inconsistent with what you're saying, sir. MR. COUTSOUKIS: What is inconsistent with that? THE COURT: Because she specifically asked them to comply by providing the school information. MR. COUTSOUKIS: But the problem I have is for weeks I have been asking for this, and for weeks they have refused to do it. THE COURT: Have you received at least MR. COUTSOUKIS: Not yet, no, and I'm still trying to get it, and they are resistant to it because I guess they didn't get this fax from her yet. See, the other problem, of course, is that what they are saying, what they are attaching to that letter, which is not shown in the exhibit, is a paragraph that was engineered by Ms. Sanz and signed by the court in the order, that says because this is better for this child for the father not to get involved in Teddy's medical and educational activities. And when somebody sees that, that doesn't tell them that they should be forthcoming with the records. And that is precisely the reason why Ms. Sanz engineered this letter, which was not uttered by the court in any of the hearings. THE COURT: Okay, I've got your point. Anything else about the medical and educational records? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. Because the medicaland the professionals are primarily relying on anecdotal information from the visiting parent rather than what they see during a brief visit or even from EEG, that's the (undecipherable words) or MRI images, because the correlation to actual symptoms vary enormously from person to person, by observer, and even the same patient from one moment to the next. Medical records from Teddy's recent emergency hospital admission, for example, necessarily do not record her condition outside the hospital. The hospital's only record of tending daytoday conditions is what petitioner told them. Petitioner has a history of withholding information THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, stop. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes? THE COURT: The only issue you're entitled to talk about at this point is, are you getting the records or not? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I have not gotten that part. THE COURT: Okay, you're entitled to all the records. I'm going to reitterate that. And I'm going to further say that if there are records that Ms. Samora has access to that the school refuses to provide to you, Ms. Samora has to provide those to you under the same terms as the court order, which was every 60 days. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And will Ms. Sanz be writing that order? THE COURT: Yes. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. Regarding this medical stuff, there wasn't an order from the court that I be given a copy of the insurance plan. That was omitted from the court order by Ms. Sanz. THE COURT: I'm assuming this is all we have about the medical and educational records. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: All right, let's talk about modifying the New York order. What do you have to say about that? That that was a part of the court order and that hasn't been done? MR. COUTSOUKIS: That is correct. And I have a problem with this exhibit that was faxed to me by Ms. Sanz. MS. SANZ: That's Exhibit 4, your Honor. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right. That exhibit is a sham, and the reason it is so is because Susan has demonstrated quite expertly that she knows how to go to the court and file a motion and a complaint very easily, on the double, time and again, twice. And not only that, but to the police stations, when that is going to result in terrible humiliation on my part. In that hearing I was never convicted, but she knows how to do it. This time she's claiming that she has to write some silly note to a clerk, based on that I don't have a lawyer. Number two, Susan has a New York lawyer who she even saw just a few days ago in court. She knows he's at her disposal at no cost. And yet what she's saying in that note, if I don't have a lawyer I don't know what to do. She has had every opportunity, the ability and the knowledge to go to the family court and request that motion, that consent agreement be changed, and she has not. Not because she doesn't know "#C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USS. COUTSOUKIS ReD "THE COURT: Okay. MS. SANZ: I can have my client here THE COURT: We'll get to you. MS. SANZ: Okay. THE COURT: I believe that covers all of the issues that I've identified that we're going to hear today in your testimony. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I apologize for my bad memory here. Did we say we will not address any items the court ordered on the hearing, that Ms. Sanz also made it from the court order, about the insurance? THE COURT: Correct, and that's why we did that Offer of Proof, sir. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. THE COURT: What I'm going to allow now is any response, Ms. Sanz, to any issues, particularly, of course, the last two about the medical records and modifying the New York order. MS. SANZ: I'm going to call my client, Susan Coutsoukis. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. SANZ: Q. Susan, do you have a court appointed attorney or a retained attorney representing you in New York right now? A. No. Q. Mr. Domicello (phonetic) represented you in that restraining order hearing that has been finalized by the court, correct? A. That was on September 9th, and that was finalized then. Q. Mr. Coutsoukis refers to a court hearing that you recently had in New York. Were you assisted by an attorney during that time? A. No. Q. That was a contempt that he filed, is that correct? A. Violation. He tried to hold me in violation of the New York court order. Q. And who was with you? Some court staff or somebody who was with you at the time? A. No, I was by myself. The court staff was in the original New York Q. You mentioned some kind of an advocate or something? A. That, that Q. Like a victim witness advocate? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Objection, relevance. THE COURT: Overruled. BY MS. SANZ: Q. Now, you wrote this letter to Mr. Edward Meade (phonetic)? A. Right. The reason I did that was because I didn't remember and realize that I could, you know, do exactly as Mr. Coutsoukis just stated. I didn't have an attorney. I had called Mr. Ed Meade, 'cause he's the clerk of the court, and asked, how do I go about amending this whatever that was Q. New York order. A. The New York order, and he said, you have to get an attorney. And then I'm like, oh, my God, so then I realized that I don't have an attorney and how do I go about doing that? And I did realize that I could just go to the court and do as Mr. Coutsoukis said, 'cause the original time when I went to the court I had a court advocate with me, and she took me place to place to place to do what I had to do, and I didn't realize it. I apologize, I should have just gone to the court and done exactly as he said and it would have been finalized, I'm sorry. THE COURT: Have they responded to your letter? Has the change been made? MS. COUTSOUKIS: No, they haven't responded, so I need to Next week Teddy will be in school in the morning and I will take care of that, and I do apologize that this even has to be brought up. I didn't even think about how to do it that way. BY MS. SANZ: Q. Mrs. Coutsoukis, I'm going to go back MS. SANZ: Your Honor, are you hearing testimony in rebuttal on some of the issues that were raised, or just on the motion? THE COURT: Well, if you've got any rebuttal I'll hear it. MS. SANZ: Okay, I'll just make this one in terms of the Email communication. THE COURT: They're in agreement on that. MS. SANZ: But specifically, only on issues concerning visitation and changes of visitation and emergency help situations, or other issues too? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Well, the reason that I asked it to be as you said, Ms. Sanz, is because there could be a lot of editorialization in those Emails and right now I'm subject to horrible comments at the time of drop off, that Photius says in front of Teddy that, you know, your mother has better things to do than stay there during the exchange. And I don't want my daughter to hear that, just like I don't want to have to read Email MR. COUTSOUKIS: Objection, objection. MS. SANZ: So you only want it on any visitation changes or your advising him of any medical emergencies, or things of that nature, correct? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Right, just the facts, just issues, just this is happening now, this is happening then. MS. SANZ: Thank you. MS. COUTSOUKIS: To make it no editorial, not any chance for discussions that are not appropriate. MS. SANZ: Thank you, no further questions, your Honor. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I have a couple questions. #C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USS. COUTSOUKIS ReX  THE COURT: Okay, try it. No argument. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, I will try, your Honor. I wish I were better trained. What can I say? I mean THE COURT: I understand. I understand. MR. COUSOUKIS: I'm trying. THE COURT: And when I find it inappropriate, sir, I'm telling you, and so go ahead. MR. COUSOUKIS: Okay. RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Susan, regarding the going to court, twice you went to court filing motions against me in New York. During those two times, was the court advocate with you both times? A. Yes. Q. And where did you find the court advocate? A. They are the ladies that sit right next to Q. In other words, you found them at the court. A. They're right there. Q. Okay, so you just went to family court and you asked what to do and did it. A. Right. Q. And for four months when there was repeated requests on my part and complaints in writing about the fact that this order was not modified in accordance with this court order, it didn't occur to you to just go to the court and ask? A. I wish it had. I'm sorry I didn't. Q. Okay. A. You know, when I spoke to Mr. Ed Meade he said you need a lawyer to do this and file a motion. I wish I had done that, believe me, or we wouldn't even have this conversation. Q. Now, can you tell us how Mr. Domicello came about to be your attorney in New York? A. Judge Baraslo (phonetic), who was hearing the situation, appointed him as my attorney, and as soon as the case ended then his services were finished. Q. And that appointment was not at your request, is that correct? A. I didn't request it. She requested it. Q. I'm sorry, you said you did not request A. I didn't request an attorney. She did. She said, I think you need a court appointed attorney. Q. And you said yes, didn't you? A. Well, then I said yes, but I didn't ask, Could I have a court appointed attorney. Q. Did you at any time think of calling Mr. Domicello to ask if he would help you or if he could be appointed again or a support? A. No, I didn't, because his job is to be paid, you know, when . . .(inaudible). Q. Now, for the four months of me complaining about this court order, never once did you think that maybe we should address Mr. Coutsoukis's complaint and go to court? A. I didn't know you were complaining for four months. Q. Are you saying that your attorney never forwarded to you communications about this that I sent to her repeatedly? A. I remember she and I discussing it has to be done, and then I went about doing it in that way. Q. And when did you see that letter? A. Actually, twice. Not only that letter, but I had called him before that and then I Q. And when was that? A. I don't remember, but shortly after it happened, and then I Q. Shortly after what happened? A. The ruling by Judge Arnold. And then I guess, in not knowing what to do I, you know, then thought, oh, well, let me try a letter and say that I don't have the funds for an attorney and see if he could help me there. And I made a mistake, I'm sorry. I wish I had THE COURT: Okay, no need to apologize again. I've got that part. Anything else, Mr. Coutsoukis? BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. You're asking now, Susan, that I pay for your health insurance as well as Teddy's, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Are you aware that I do not have health care THE COURT: I've already determined we're not going to require you to pay for her health insurance, sir. I'm not hearing that issue today. That should have been raised before the hearing in certain motions, it was not, so that's out of the case. BY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Q. Now, did you, Susan, not sign voluntarily and with the advise of your attorney, Christina Sanz, a financial agreement which states that you were to pay for health insurance for me for up to a year after the divorce? MS. SANZ: Objection to relevance. THE COURT: That's sustained. Anything else, Mr. Coutsoukis? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I guess not. THE COURT: I think you've covered it. I'm going to go kind of outI may go backwards here in a way, because I want to deal with this issue of modifying the New York order. I want to deal with that right now. Ms. Coutsoukis, you clearly should have acted sooner. I'm going to require that you file proof of compliance with that portion of the order requiring you to modify the court order in New York within 30 days of today's date. MS. COUTSOUKIS: It will be done THE COURT: Well, all right, I'm just telling you that's going to be there. And clearly, if it's not done and appropriate action has not been taken, if there's anything else you could have done within that 30 days, that will be a grounds for contempt. I'm going to not hold you in contempt at this point, but require proof of compliance within 30 days. I'm going to require that on any medical or educational records which the facility does not supply to Mr. Coutsoukis or refuses to supply and you have access to them, Ms. Coutsoukis, that you will supply those on the same 60 day period that was in the prior order. #C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`ر#Xv6X@CX@#??USCOLLOQUY MR. COUTSOUKIS: Would that include the book that she has in her possession? THE COURT: It does include that book. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, your Honor, it's a book that I can just give him on this, well, today, and then if he would return it back when he gets Teddy back. THE COURT: I don't care how you do it. He's entitled to have that document. MS. COUTSOUKIS: That's fine. THE COURT: And on the next 60 day cycle, he's entitled to have it again, or copies of it. The property issue we've dealt with; the washer, dryer, the computer, the photographs. You'll need to get the washer and dryer and any other of these properties from Mr. Coutsoukis. And the date, sir, that you're moving is MR. COUTSOUKIS: I will be moving throughout the month of March. It is very hard to move the company and myself while not losing the business. THE COURT: So if she gets these items by March 15 then that will be adequate, is that correct? MR. COUTSOUKIS: The 17th? THE COURT: 17? MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yeah. THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: One more thing, though. The computer needs work before I can give it to her, so that it's usable to her. THE COURT: Okay. MR. COUTSOUKIS: And I have very limited time because I work, you know, in three time zones. THE COURT: Okay, she's going to get these items by or before March 17th. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Can she wait for the computer longer? MS. COUTSOUKIS: I can wait, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. You will see that she gets it after that date then, sir. MS. SANZ: Your Honor, do you want to specify a date when the computer THE COURT: When can she have the computerthe latest date, sir? April 1? MR. COUTSOUKIS: How about May 1? MS. COUTSOUKIS: Fine. THE COURT: May 1 it is. MR. COUTSOUKIS: I will try to get it to her tomorrow, if I can, but I just don't want to be caught losing the business to do her computer. MS. COUTSOUKIS: May 1 is fine. THE COURT: I will allow Email then MR. COUTSOUKIS: It's one of my business computers and I have to transfer THE COURT: All right, we've resolved that, sir. I will allow Email communications concerning visitation and emergency medical issues only. I will allow the requested third party drop off of the two sisters and Ms. Gerardi. MR. COUSOUKIS: And I have a call when that would happen? THE COURT: No, a call is not necessary. She just has to meet the schedule that's there and drop off in the appropriate places. I'm going to compute child support for both people on the potential income standard that I used before, and so I think that will not change. I'm going to require that the parties share in all uninsured medical and medicine expenses that are necessary, as required under the law. I'm going to make a finding that the audit issues of back taxes are issues concerning Schedule C and therefore require that Mr. Coutsoukis will pay the back taxes. And I want to look at the order a second to deal with one other issue here. Ms. Sanz, do you have a copy of the court order easily available? MS. SANZ: Oh, yes, the one of the visitation. THE COURT: I'm just looking for mine. All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: May I ask a question reqarding the computation of the child support? THE COURT: All right. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Ms. Sanz, after two separate conversations with my then attorney, and a third one with me prior to the hearing, it says that the 494 and a half was wrong and that the 429 was correct. She was corrected twice. And during that hearing I questioned her THE COURT: What's your question, sir? MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm saying that the calcuation that you are ordering is supposed to come up with 429, total; 494.50 includes Susan's portion of Teddy's health insurance. In other words, it would be paying both mine and Susan's portion of Teddy's health insurance, the correct amount. And Ms. Sanz insisted on it, repeatedly and in court, and that is correct, 429 even. It's 363.50, plus the $65 for my portion of Teddy's health insurance. THE COURT: Any response to that? MR. COUTSOUKIS: And the THE COURT: Just a second, now. You've had your say. Any response to that, Ms. Sanz? MS. SANZ: He is correct. At the hearing we had in Well, to a point, he's correct. the hearing we had on November 24th, I did state it was 424. I wrote him a letter the week later, November 30th, saying that I sat down and did the math and I was wrong. It's the number that I attached with the order, the support calculation, and informed him that the order I would be submitting to the court asks for higher than 429. THE COURT: That didn't include insurance for her? MS. SANZ: No, it does not. It only includes insurance for the child, and that was based on MR. COUTSOUKIS: But mine includes Susan's portions of the child's insurance. MS. SANZ: I had submitted an exhibit earlier to Ms. Lorey that showed both an amount that was only for the child and not for the adults. I think originally it was 429, because we thought he was just going to pay it completely, but then later he wouldn't pay it so then she had to pay it MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm sorry, excuse me, excuse me. What did you say? THE COURT: All right, what I have ruled is I'll keep the same child support amount in effect. And my interpretation of the court orderI realize that the statement is in there about the visitation in the summer will occur when the child is not in school, but it's clearly not contemplated that the mother can place the child in school in such a way that would specifically determine the four weeks. And so I'm going to allow Mr. Coutsoukis to designate his four weeks by May What is it, May 15th? MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's the deadline for me to submit the dates. THE COURT: By May 15th, and you'll be able to designate any period of time in June, July and August that complies with the two, twoweek periods. MR. COUSOUKIS: Thank you. My mother's coming from Greece and my mother and myself are THE COURT: That's all. Don't need to hear it anymore, Mr. Coutsoukis. MS. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, I need to confer with my attorney. I did not set this school up. The school set it up that she needs this therapy. THE COURT: You may confer with your attorney. MS. COUTSOUKIS: This is not something I set up, your Honor. MS. SANZ: Maybe if I can ask one question to the court that might clear it up. THE COURT: All right. MS. SANZ: Mr. Coutsoukis will be required to bring her to school during the two weeks? THE COURT: Well, I intended for him to have visitation during the summer in a way that would accomodate his schedule. And the idea that the school would completely preempt his ability to make a decision is certainly contrary to my intent. I want him to be able to make that determination himself, and I'm not going to require him to take her to school during his visitation. MS. COUTSOUKIS: This is not just a regular school, your Honor. This is therapy. She gets MR. COUTSOUKIS: She's gotten 10 times worse than she THE COURT: All right, both of you, I understand your position and I am ruling that Mr. Coutsoukis will determine his time in the months of June, July and August, that he'll meet the two, twoweek standard, and notify you by May 15th. MR. COUTSOUKIS: One other thing with the court order, your Honor. You had ordered a clause added, that in the event of missing a visitation the makeup visit would not take the place of a future scheduled visit. Ms. Sanz omitted that, and the reason I had requested that then was because she didn't let me see her after her hospitalization and then she wanted to move and say THE COURT: I'm not going to amend the court order, sir. MR. COUTSOUKIS: In other words, they can change the weeks when I can visit my daughter? THE COURT: I'm going to mark your exhibits and admit them into evidence, Mr. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Coutsoukis. THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis. That's all. We are finished. Ms. Coutsoukis, Ms. Sanz may want to call you back, but I'm going to stop court now. MR. COUTSOUKIS: One thing about this, when the court order is drafted by Ms. Sanz, would I have the opportunity to review it to verify THE COURT: Yes, yes, the court rules require that. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Beg your pardon? THE COURT: The court rules require that. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay, and see, the problem has been that I have difficulty, or the court has a problem in transcripts in a timely fashion. So if I get a transcript after her memo comes in and there's a deadline and I cannotthe transcript shows an error on her part, and I do anticipate thatit has happenedthen we'll wind up with some problems. Can we order Ms. Sanz to wait for the transcript, which I will request today and send the money today, before she can make this, or the court makes this final ruling? The court THE COURT: I don't anticipate waiting for the transcript. Did I give you his exhibits? Ms. Sanz will submit the order and we'll deal with it in the normal course. THE CLERK: Are the petitioner's exhibits received? THE COURT: Yes, all the petitioner's exhibits that were offered were received, and all of Mr. Coutsoukis's exhibits are received and remarked in the way I indicated. Thank you. MR. COUTSOUKIS: Thank you. MS. SANZ: Byebye. THE COURT: Goodbye. (The hearing concludes at approximately 12:00 o'clock p.m.) oo0oo "#C\  P6QP#US??1!xxdd` hp x (#%%#Xv6X@CX@#??US`إ#Xv6X@CX@#??USCERTIFICATE " STATE OF OREGON) ) ss. County of Jackson ) TRANSCRIBER'S CERTIFICATE I, SUSAN STEDMAN, court transcriber for the Josephine County Courts, do hereby attest that I transcribed the foregoing hearing from tapes numbered 998300 and 98301, to the best of my ability; That the foregoing transcript, pages 1 to 65 inclusive, contains a full, true and correct record of all such proceedings had, and of the whole thereof; That I am not counsel to nor related to any of the parties herein, nor am I otherwise interested in the outcome of these proceedings. WITNESS MY HAND on this ____ day of March, 1998. _________________________________________ Susan Stedman, Transcriber